Matrix

[unimportantguy]

I don't mean to be rude, but for Pete's sake, WHY would you expect good dialogue from a Matrix movie? The dialogue has been full of corny clichés and silliness since the very beginning. (I know kung fu!)

Edit: I'm sorry if that came off as rude or abrasive. I've been arguing with people about the dialogue in the Matrix movies since the first one came out. Why do people think the first Matrix was so clever? >.<

[blackest_knight]

May I quote from the One Liners Thread:

"I know kung fu!" -Neo

[The Diety]

Prepare for a tangent, cuz here it is.

Matrix, the first one, is the better one due to it can stand alone. It was mildly fresh for the anime/sci-fi junkie, but to the action movie crowd it was new. And to quote NBC, if you haven't seen it, it's new to you.
For me personally a movie about a saviour type character isn't anything new, with self-sacrifice and dying for a cause not being something shocking either. The first one was successful due to this being not fully mainstreamed yet.

Don't for God's sake, go to a movie these days for dialogue! Good dialogue is rare like an honest politician.
Dialogue for most major movies have to be clichés and puns or the public won't want to see it again.

People liked the first Matrix not for the dialogue alone anyhow. It was the flashy lights, a semi-sophisticated hidden religious subplot, and a setting that hasn't been used since Tron(which is the bombest 80s movie, but I'll stop there or I'll also be told to start up a new thread just for like others have been told).

I felt that Matrix Reload was a wasted opportunity for an proper build-up, anyone can cut a movie at climax in my opinion. It had its moments but was a fader type movie. Unneccessarily long Tribal-Rave-Sex-Party scene I think too.

Matrix Revolution was an improvement from the second one, and had some nice little nuggets to remember. Personally I liked the heavier focus on the outside world fighting. It became a little too heavy-handed in the Christ focus though. I like a story that's got a parallel plot-style as opposed, I'm going to cram the cross down you're throat politely thru subliminal styling).
Love and sacrifice over fighting after all this isn't a bad message, but don't use imagery like crucifixation. It was better when the subtle points were done, like the mixed buddhist/christian/rastafarian messages in the first one.

I'm going to stop though, long posts don't the get the eye well so, without further ado, smileys....

;D

[unimportantguy]

The said:

and a setting that hasn't been used since Tron(which is the bombest 80s movie, but I'll stop there or I'll also be told to start up a new thread just for like others have been told).

Damn straight.

[blackest_knight]

*Major Spoilers*

Alright, I went to see Rvolutions again Monday night (with OUT Tyler and other person, thank you v. much!) And I will say it was a lot better the second time. Until the end. The fight with Smith....so Dragon-ball z. It was so stupid. Let's take two super powerful beings and get rid of ALL rules of the Matrix, letting them tumble upward, bash into each other, and whatever else they did, with no hope of winning that way. I mean, come on now!!!!!! That fight could've been done far better.

And the Christ imagery was a bit excessive.

Also, Unimportantguy said this a few days ago:

One thing that really bugged me, though: Revolutions has outdone Fellowship in the "Death scene that takes too long" department. Granted, I knew the story wasn't exactly going to be stellar, but Trinity took too long to die, and delivered some dialogue in that time that I thought just reeked. "You gave me another chance." Yawn. Just die already!

In my opinion, Trinity's death did not take too long. Boromir's death was far worse. I've sat through her dying twice, and I honestly think it wasn't bad at all. Everything that was said there was necessary, especially to show how much she meant to Neo. (Btw, I honestly believe Neo had absolutely no chance of beating Smith. Due to Trin dying, his heart was out of the fight.)

lol, I just realized something....Unimportantguy, you complained about the dialogue in her death scene, then you said to Ceith:

WHY would you expect good dialogue from a Matrix movie?

Anyway, I think it would've been a great movie if that fight with Smith had been done differently.



I think I'm done typing now.

[unimportantguy]

AND YET ANOTHER SPOILER ALERT!




I wasn't expecting award-winners.

In fact, most of the dialogue was about where I expected it to be. But I've never cared so little about a character death scene. Also, I thought Boromir's trying to do a good deed and dieing in the hopes the others could live had a lot more meaning than Trinity's death.

(Btw, I honestly believe Neo had absolutely no chance of beating Smith. Due to Trin dying, his heart was out of the fight.)

Well.... maybe, maybe not. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, but... there's two ways to look at Neo's state after Trin died:

1. "I've lost her, and nothing matters anymore."

2. "She died because of you, and I swear I'll kill you."

I couldn't quite decide which side he was on more, but the fact that he continued on made me lean more towards 2.

And as long as I'm on the subject...

Personally, the fight with Smith didn't bother me so much, (in fact, I thought they pulled it off about the best we could've hoped for) as the way it ended, which seemed like deus ex machina to me. Y'see, I saw that as the Administrator destroying Smith through Neo. But, I can't think of a single time when it was even hinted at that the Admin could channel power through, or directly manipulate a human within the Matrix. If he could, why didn't he just zap all the poor fools who jacked in?

But, it IS just entertaining fluff in the end, and trying to make sense of it all without resorting to director logic (ie "X must happen so that Y can happen because that's the trigger for Z") just makes my head hurt so I'm going to shut up now.

[blackest_knight]

A word on what you said:

1. "I've lost her, and nothing matters anymore."

2. "She died because of you, and I swear I'll kill you."

I couldn't quite decide which side he was on more, but the fact that he continued on made me lean more towards 2.

You can also look at it as he lost her, and deep down doesn't care (as in his heart isn't there) but his brain is telling him "you're the one. man kind's survival depends on you. keep fighting...."

just a thought.

[unimportantguy]

I'm still leaning more towards option 2, since I'm a stubborn bastard.

[The Diety]

*WARNING:TANGENT*
The Following Is Religious based and most likely be a topic of low to no concern for some, so I'll save you're time by giving the warning.

So sitting at work today, wasting time as usually talking with co-workers, The Matrix movies came into the discussion and I noticed some religious parallelling I didn't think of before. This brought to me an unsettling conclusion... the damn story is actually done well plot wise, it's the choice in actors that brought it down(except Hugo Weaving, he did his best to be an unfeeling robot which is identical his acting for Elrond that Elf Lord in LOTR, funny that huh?...no personality=elven?).
The easy to see parallels in the movie were beaten to death, ie Neo=saviour of religion of your choice or out of the 2nd one The Architect=God, but what sinks in way after the fact was kinda neat.
The following is the one I thought was worth sharing.

If The Architect is a parody for God, then the parody of the Angels is the agents. If Smith was the Top agent, then He would be Lucifer before the Fall. When Neo first "destroys" him, it parallels Lucifer's remaking into the prideful powermonger that falls. This theme continues with the consuming of sorts he does later in the 2nd and the 3rd. Lucifer is said to consume the earth with his ways and rule the earth until it "ends" and renews.

I kept finding little nuggets like this to talk about, which is proof that this was truly not just claptrap but an Epic.

And after the conversation was done at work I realized it does deserve some credit. It maybe just some Kung-fu sci-fi flick, but it's a not like that should be really the only thing you think of for it. I think that Andy and Larry Wachowski should be noted for their Directing and Writing.

[blackest_knight]

Wow. I never even considered it like that, but you're right

[unimportantguy]

I always assumed there were religious parrallels, but I'm not religious, so, I wouldn't have thought of all that.

And besides, I'd rather just watch stuff blow up and people get hurt.

[Kietedan]

I really don't see why everyone wants reality out of a movie... Just mystifies me. If you want horrifying reality watch the news.

The entire point of the matrix was to be fantastical. The Warshowski Bros. Took Shadowrun & Mage sandwiched them together and added some philosphical rambling. The dialog wasn't meant to be clever, it was meant to leave room for the philosophical nonsense. And it did. (You don't want to have sat thru my Phil class last year or english the year before. It was all about the layers in the matrix.)

But I digress from my point. Movies are not and will never be real. They cannot be real. Don't expect it.

end rant.

[The Diety]

Curious, but where did you get someone wanting reality from the matrix movies, cuz I know I was making a parallel and pointing out similarities in other stories. And everybody else was just ranting in general about liking it or not. Or was this some random statement flung out there to get some attention and point out how pointless finding parallels are?

[Kietedan]

it was tied to someones complaint that the dialog wasn't realistic (near the beginning of the thread). And it just ended up being a rant about movie critiquing. And it was most likely off topic as it went. Hence "rant".